1 00:00:26,659 --> 00:00:24,339 [Music] 2 00:00:29,569 --> 00:00:26,669 hello everyone and welcome to the 3 00:00:33,380 --> 00:00:29,579 antique auction forum we have two great 4 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:33,390 guests they vote then past guests on 5 00:00:38,509 --> 00:00:36,210 this show Richard Wright and David Rago 6 00:00:41,210 --> 00:00:38,519 and we are going to talk today about 7 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:41,220 their merger that they're doing pretty 8 00:00:44,270 --> 00:00:43,530 excited to speak about that welcome to 9 00:00:46,910 --> 00:00:44,280 the show guys 10 00:00:48,619 --> 00:00:46,920 thank you for having us and you we are 11 00:00:51,020 --> 00:00:48,629 right now you are down in Lambertville 12 00:00:53,539 --> 00:00:51,030 right and that at the Lambertville 13 00:00:55,219 --> 00:00:53,549 office the auction gallery there in the 14 00:00:57,469 --> 00:00:55,229 heart of New Jersey yes 15 00:00:59,030 --> 00:00:57,479 if I remember right David you told me 16 00:01:02,000 --> 00:00:59,040 last time we spoke you're about four 17 00:01:05,210 --> 00:01:02,010 miles from the Nakashima shop as a crow 18 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:05,220 flies yes yeah and what what great 19 00:01:11,179 --> 00:01:08,490 history of that is in and the shop is 20 00:01:13,039 --> 00:01:11,189 still going mirrors still running that 21 00:01:15,530 --> 00:01:13,049 and you and I've had a few conversations 22 00:01:18,980 --> 00:01:15,540 over the years about people that have 23 00:01:21,370 --> 00:01:18,990 had Nakashima in the area I get while 24 00:01:25,099 --> 00:01:21,380 aboard just I'm talking about Nakashima 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:25,109 why when I lived out in the San 26 00:01:29,209 --> 00:01:27,450 Francisco area why was it so popular out 27 00:01:32,469 --> 00:01:29,219 there I used to see it it seemed like 28 00:01:35,660 --> 00:01:32,479 everywhere out there in San Francisco I 29 00:01:38,149 --> 00:01:35,670 would be giving an educated guess but 30 00:01:41,389 --> 00:01:38,159 something about the the natural edges of 31 00:01:43,819 --> 00:01:41,399 the wood seemed very harmonious with a 32 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:43,829 lot of the architecture I saw in San 33 00:01:50,330 --> 00:01:45,090 Francisco in Marin County 34 00:01:51,980 --> 00:01:50,340 I see hmm the edges the use of 35 00:01:52,999 --> 00:01:51,990 structural detailing I've been in the 36 00:01:55,730 --> 00:01:53,009 number of houses in the San Francisco 37 00:01:58,879 --> 00:01:55,740 and north of San Francisco area where 38 00:02:02,209 --> 00:01:58,889 the modern housing lots of trees 39 00:02:03,139 --> 00:02:02,219 especially yeah and it seemed to be a 40 00:02:05,029 --> 00:02:03,149 really good fit to me 41 00:02:07,399 --> 00:02:05,039 no Mill Valley I remember I remember 42 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:07,409 when I was out there there was actually 43 00:02:13,850 --> 00:02:10,649 I looked at a table where the the 44 00:02:16,130 --> 00:02:13,860 underside of it the person that owned it 45 00:02:18,410 --> 00:02:16,140 made me crawl underneath and look and he 46 00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:18,420 said there's a civil war bullet right 47 00:02:24,590 --> 00:02:21,360 there in the tree that was embedded in 48 00:02:25,970 --> 00:02:24,600 the tree and he kept it in that was 49 00:02:29,630 --> 00:02:25,980 pretty interesting definitely seen that 50 00:02:32,630 --> 00:02:29,640 pieces of flesh cut wood that had metal 51 00:02:38,030 --> 00:02:32,640 in them usually a bullet yeah yeah 52 00:02:42,490 --> 00:02:40,310 so we're going to talk about the merger 53 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:42,500 but first of all let's talk separately 54 00:02:48,710 --> 00:02:46,530 David you've been around this for even 55 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:48,720 long I say you know 45 years I've been 56 00:02:52,910 --> 00:02:51,090 at you know auctions and antiques think 57 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:52,920 you have me beat you you started out 58 00:02:59,020 --> 00:02:55,610 very very young but I want to get into 59 00:03:00,950 --> 00:02:59,030 what's that almost seven when I started 60 00:03:04,310 --> 00:03:00,960 okay I was 15 61 00:03:06,380 --> 00:03:04,320 yeah that's pretty amazing and you know 62 00:03:08,390 --> 00:03:06,390 if you don't see a lot of that today but 63 00:03:10,370 --> 00:03:08,400 occasionally you will see kids that are 64 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:10,380 really into it and I love that you know 65 00:03:15,470 --> 00:03:13,170 I mean it we need that we need that 66 00:03:16,730 --> 00:03:15,480 coming up but go ahead if you wouldn't 67 00:03:18,830 --> 00:03:16,740 talk a little bit about your your 68 00:03:22,490 --> 00:03:18,840 gallery and then Richard your turn after 69 00:03:24,020 --> 00:03:22,500 that sure well we started our auction 70 00:03:26,540 --> 00:03:24,030 company in 84 were I've been in the 71 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:26,550 business in 72 actually started the flea 72 00:03:29,930 --> 00:03:27,930 market in Lambertville which is about 73 00:03:32,770 --> 00:03:29,940 two miles from where we're sitting two 74 00:03:36,050 --> 00:03:32,780 and a half miles and soon discovered 75 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:36,060 porcelain and ceramics timing was really 76 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:37,530 good I had was a college student I had 77 00:03:42,890 --> 00:03:39,930 my money from there I moved into arts 78 00:03:45,140 --> 00:03:42,900 and crafts material just kept changing 79 00:03:46,610 --> 00:03:45,150 with it in the early 90s we held our 80 00:03:47,210 --> 00:03:46,620 first modern office and I think was 90 81 00:03:49,750 --> 00:03:47,220 or 91 82 00:03:52,610 --> 00:03:49,760 not long after George makishima died 83 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:52,620 gradually made the shift from early 20th 84 00:03:57,110 --> 00:03:54,530 century to mid 20th century contemporary 85 00:04:00,050 --> 00:03:57,120 so it's been a long and circuitous route 86 00:04:03,199 --> 00:04:00,060 I bet now did you have to kind of guide 87 00:04:04,850 --> 00:04:03,209 your you're buying audience along to get 88 00:04:08,030 --> 00:04:04,860 excited about these type of things how 89 00:04:09,770 --> 00:04:08,040 did that how did that come about now we 90 00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:09,780 have many models in our business but one 91 00:04:15,590 --> 00:04:12,060 of my favorites is a desperation is the 92 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:15,600 mother of invention when the recession 93 00:04:19,699 --> 00:04:17,250 hit in the early 90s we were just 94 00:04:21,259 --> 00:04:19,709 looking for things to sell because we 95 00:04:23,450 --> 00:04:21,269 were in the Lambertville area who lived 96 00:04:24,980 --> 00:04:23,460 in labor bill at that time we came 97 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:24,990 across some really interesting modern 98 00:04:30,860 --> 00:04:27,570 material lucked into some George 99 00:04:33,409 --> 00:04:30,870 Nakashima from realtor in New Jersey who 100 00:04:36,050 --> 00:04:33,419 had a hundred pieces of it he started 101 00:04:38,540 --> 00:04:36,060 consigning one of us so I would say was 102 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:38,550 the path of least resistance I wish it 103 00:04:42,980 --> 00:04:40,710 was more intelligent more pressure to 104 00:04:45,469 --> 00:04:42,990 the mattock I cannot take credit for 105 00:04:47,210 --> 00:04:45,479 prescience in this case well you've 106 00:04:49,130 --> 00:04:47,220 certainly found your niche that's for 107 00:04:51,110 --> 00:04:49,140 sure and rich 108 00:04:54,620 --> 00:04:51,120 why don't you go ahead and talk about 109 00:04:57,740 --> 00:04:54,630 how you you began in and you know you're 110 00:05:00,500 --> 00:04:57,750 you're into the 20th century design as 111 00:05:01,220 --> 00:05:00,510 well and 21st century design as well 112 00:05:03,590 --> 00:05:01,230 aren't you 113 00:05:05,210 --> 00:05:03,600 yes I mean it's an interesting parallel 114 00:05:07,820 --> 00:05:05,220 I started out in the flea markets as 115 00:05:11,450 --> 00:05:07,830 well that started make the dealer in the 116 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:11,460 late 80s having no money at that time 117 00:05:15,530 --> 00:05:13,290 instead of doing arts and crafts which 118 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:15,540 was already kind of expensive I did 119 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:17,850 modern so I started right away 120 00:05:21,530 --> 00:05:20,370 with what was the most accessible market 121 00:05:25,130 --> 00:05:21,540 at that point which would things from 122 00:05:26,990 --> 00:05:25,140 the 50s worked my way up worked at 123 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:27,000 another auction house that trend way to 124 00:05:37,250 --> 00:05:31,010 my auction house ran that from 93 to 99 125 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:37,260 left in 2000 to open my own and building 126 00:05:42,170 --> 00:05:39,570 up from there I think like David you 127 00:05:43,670 --> 00:05:42,180 know kept evolving the whole way which 128 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:43,680 isn't better both been really proud of 129 00:05:50,659 --> 00:05:47,970 it is because me this this kind of next 130 00:05:52,250 --> 00:05:50,669 chapter actually fuel just you know 131 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:52,260 totally appropriate to what we can do in 132 00:05:58,480 --> 00:05:55,650 our whole career right one of the things 133 00:06:01,370 --> 00:05:58,490 I'd notice about your your auction 134 00:06:03,530 --> 00:06:01,380 gallery right away Richard is the 135 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:03,540 wonderful photography it's almost like 136 00:06:08,690 --> 00:06:05,490 the photography and the catalogs are 137 00:06:09,980 --> 00:06:08,700 almost like art artistic and I was 138 00:06:13,790 --> 00:06:09,990 getting your catalogs for a long time 139 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:13,800 and they're just fabulous and doing this 140 00:06:17,530 --> 00:06:15,690 work myself I know what it takes to 141 00:06:19,940 --> 00:06:17,540 catalog and put together a catalog it's 142 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:19,950 besides the vast expense 143 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:22,650 you know it's an enormous amount of time 144 00:06:27,380 --> 00:06:25,290 you know we've invested a lot the print 145 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:27,390 catalogs were our original claim to fame 146 00:06:32,090 --> 00:06:29,970 and you know we still do them and I 147 00:06:35,860 --> 00:06:32,100 still love prints but digital has become 148 00:06:39,409 --> 00:06:35,870 really our focus and you know trying to 149 00:06:41,780 --> 00:06:39,419 translate that same quality visual 150 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:41,790 quality through the web you know it's 151 00:06:47,930 --> 00:06:45,450 definitely the future right and you know 152 00:06:51,490 --> 00:06:47,940 speaking of that the it's less and less 153 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:51,500 auction houses we'll do it catalog and 154 00:06:57,650 --> 00:06:54,890 compared to an online catalog it's still 155 00:06:59,240 --> 00:06:57,660 about the same amount of work a little 156 00:07:02,570 --> 00:06:59,250 less money because of the printing 157 00:07:06,980 --> 00:07:02,580 issues but still so what made you to 158 00:07:09,110 --> 00:07:06,990 decide to to join together and how do 159 00:07:14,740 --> 00:07:09,120 you think that's going to benefit both 160 00:07:17,990 --> 00:07:14,750 of you and and the buyers you know yeah 161 00:07:20,869 --> 00:07:18,000 you know quite honestly I think the the 162 00:07:23,779 --> 00:07:20,879 pressures within the industry brought us 163 00:07:26,570 --> 00:07:23,789 together in so much as you know it's 164 00:07:28,610 --> 00:07:26,580 it's it's a very competitive field it's 165 00:07:31,339 --> 00:07:28,620 you know Christie's and Sotheby's are 166 00:07:33,469 --> 00:07:31,349 you know the two behemoths at the top of 167 00:07:35,659 --> 00:07:33,479 the industry that really increasingly 168 00:07:38,629 --> 00:07:35,669 are trying to capture total market share 169 00:07:41,300 --> 00:07:38,639 with digitization you know you have 170 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:41,310 first dibs and you have Christie's and 171 00:07:46,129 --> 00:07:42,810 Sotheby's mounting more and more digital 172 00:07:48,580 --> 00:07:46,139 auctions and just again trying to take 173 00:07:52,010 --> 00:07:48,590 his take take as much as they can 174 00:07:55,219 --> 00:07:52,020 David King King to me we were friendly 175 00:07:57,260 --> 00:07:55,229 competitors but we weren't respectful 176 00:07:58,129 --> 00:07:57,270 yeah respectful that's really it 177 00:08:01,279 --> 00:07:58,139 they actually didn't know each other 178 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:01,289 very well and we started talking about a 179 00:08:06,050 --> 00:08:03,810 year and a half before we actually final 180 00:08:09,529 --> 00:08:06,060 and finally legally merged which was 181 00:08:11,300 --> 00:08:09,539 only in January of this year and through 182 00:08:12,499 --> 00:08:11,310 the process the process has been really 183 00:08:15,379 --> 00:08:12,509 wonderful I think that we've become 184 00:08:19,339 --> 00:08:15,389 friends and then this natural synergy 185 00:08:22,010 --> 00:08:19,349 that we saw really has become apparent 186 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:22,020 you know just in the brief waiver that 187 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:26,690 we described our business you know as 188 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:28,889 auction as an auction house I've 189 00:08:36,069 --> 00:08:32,130 invested a lot in process and in photos 190 00:08:39,130 --> 00:08:36,079 and you know that sort of back-of-house 191 00:08:42,189 --> 00:08:39,140 thing David it has built an incredibly 192 00:08:44,329 --> 00:08:42,199 you know client facing forward 193 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:44,339 organization where he's here in 194 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:46,010 Lambertville tons of people come here 195 00:08:51,829 --> 00:08:48,810 he's you know really you know as it has 196 00:08:55,009 --> 00:08:51,839 great our range which is doesn't have me 197 00:08:57,949 --> 00:08:55,019 not so much and you know the combination 198 00:08:59,840 --> 00:08:57,959 of that is actually proof we thought 199 00:09:02,780 --> 00:08:59,850 there'd be as Richard said of synergy 200 00:09:04,210 --> 00:09:02,790 when when we agreed to do this and in 201 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:04,220 some of the ways we were right in 202 00:09:08,060 --> 00:09:05,970 anticipating there'd be some savings 203 00:09:10,699 --> 00:09:08,070 costs and we could make more interesting 204 00:09:12,230 --> 00:09:10,709 auctions and we were selling things that 205 00:09:14,150 --> 00:09:12,240 Richard wasn't for example we were 206 00:09:16,009 --> 00:09:14,160 holding jewelry sales and estate sales 207 00:09:18,410 --> 00:09:16,019 with Asian our 208 00:09:20,090 --> 00:09:18,420 and even coin auctions Richard wasn't 209 00:09:21,739 --> 00:09:20,100 doing any of this so we felt that we had 210 00:09:23,359 --> 00:09:21,749 that to offer and we also know that 211 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:23,369 Richard was approaching auctions from a 212 00:09:27,290 --> 00:09:25,410 higher level than we were our catalogs 213 00:09:30,229 --> 00:09:27,300 were really good but as you said the 214 00:09:32,479 --> 00:09:30,239 photography that Richard was employing 215 00:09:34,340 --> 00:09:32,489 was at a different level and we saw that 216 00:09:36,199 --> 00:09:34,350 I mean we're in the art business be 217 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:36,209 better is better and it's not it's not 218 00:09:42,410 --> 00:09:38,730 hard to determine but beyond that we're 219 00:09:44,479 --> 00:09:42,420 seeing that the union has has really 220 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:44,489 changed the game for both of us in ways 221 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:45,689 I didn't see coming 222 00:09:50,749 --> 00:09:49,110 for example even in the material that we 223 00:09:53,030 --> 00:09:50,759 were both selling like we spoke earlier 224 00:09:56,929 --> 00:09:53,040 about George makishima well now we have 225 00:09:58,669 --> 00:09:56,939 more Nakashima to draw from and we have 226 00:10:00,679 --> 00:09:58,679 more auctions to sell it it i was only 227 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:00,689 selling Nakashima three times a year in 228 00:10:04,549 --> 00:10:02,850 my three main modern salesmen richard 229 00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:04,559 was holding maybe four or five or six 230 00:10:08,900 --> 00:10:07,110 auctions now there's maybe ten auctions 231 00:10:10,939 --> 00:10:08,910 a year where Nakashima would be 232 00:10:12,949 --> 00:10:10,949 appropriate and instead of my having to 233 00:10:15,199 --> 00:10:12,959 put I mean I had I've had auctions with 234 00:10:18,109 --> 00:10:15,209 not Shaima with 50 plus lots of 235 00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:18,119 Nakashima in one day Wow it's a lot to 236 00:10:21,769 --> 00:10:19,529 bring out at one time you don't have to 237 00:10:23,210 --> 00:10:21,779 do that anymore now we can spread those 238 00:10:25,970 --> 00:10:23,220 50 locks out over three different 239 00:10:27,829 --> 00:10:25,980 auctions and really give a certain 240 00:10:30,049 --> 00:10:27,839 amount of focus to each individual ah 241 00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:30,059 rather than jam it all together those 242 00:10:33,859 --> 00:10:32,100 are that's one of the ways we're 243 00:10:37,789 --> 00:10:33,869 definitely seeing a change for the good 244 00:10:39,730 --> 00:10:37,799 I see now do you have to get involved in 245 00:10:42,169 --> 00:10:39,740 shipping between Chicago and 246 00:10:43,970 --> 00:10:42,179 Lambertville I mean does that is that 247 00:10:47,900 --> 00:10:43,980 happening there's a little bit of that 248 00:10:51,019 --> 00:10:47,910 for sure I mean you know the the Chicago 249 00:10:54,859 --> 00:10:51,029 operation has relatively as I said were 250 00:10:56,629 --> 00:10:54,869 less less outward focused we have far 251 00:11:00,139 --> 00:10:56,639 fewer pre viewers we actually sell 252 00:11:03,530 --> 00:11:00,149 relatively little material in Chicago so 253 00:11:05,749 --> 00:11:03,540 we we take in consignments to be sold in 254 00:11:07,069 --> 00:11:05,759 Lambertville very often we'll ship 255 00:11:10,129 --> 00:11:07,079 things to Lambertville because the 256 00:11:12,379 --> 00:11:10,139 preview is very important here on the 257 00:11:15,949 --> 00:11:12,389 right platform we sell a lot to these 258 00:11:18,229 --> 00:11:15,959 ghosts anyway and then so a lot of a lot 259 00:11:18,799 --> 00:11:18,239 of the property will stay right here in 260 00:11:23,059 --> 00:11:18,809 Lambertville 261 00:11:24,850 --> 00:11:23,069 so it's it's also helped you know people 262 00:11:27,259 --> 00:11:24,860 that want to consign under the right 263 00:11:28,670 --> 00:11:27,269 platform because we're keeping we're 264 00:11:32,809 --> 00:11:28,680 keeping two brands 265 00:11:36,530 --> 00:11:32,819 go so so you sort of have two channels 266 00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:36,540 that you can choose from we've found 267 00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:37,920 that having the East Coast Gustin issues 268 00:11:44,299 --> 00:11:40,079 actually I had a tip for our buyers and 269 00:11:46,309 --> 00:11:44,309 sellers I see I was having an 270 00:11:49,119 --> 00:11:46,319 interesting conversation with Jay 271 00:11:52,910 --> 00:11:49,129 Stanger are you familiar with him yeah 272 00:11:55,790 --> 00:11:52,920 just a few if yeah a few days ago I'm 273 00:11:57,980 --> 00:11:55,800 actually appraising of a piece that took 274 00:12:00,169 --> 00:11:57,990 him four years to make in a home it's 275 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:00,179 really an amazing piece and we started 276 00:12:06,739 --> 00:12:04,410 talking about the what's that very Jose 277 00:12:09,499 --> 00:12:06,749 we started talking about you know how 278 00:12:12,379 --> 00:12:09,509 his things fair at auction how you know 279 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:12,389 contemporary work by certain people fair 280 00:12:17,869 --> 00:12:14,970 and he said his not so well but he did 281 00:12:20,059 --> 00:12:17,879 say that there was one furniture artist 282 00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:20,069 and I didn't catch the name or I didn't 283 00:12:25,939 --> 00:12:22,860 remember the name that he says that when 284 00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:25,949 the pieces go to auction they go higher 285 00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:28,529 at auction than what that person would 286 00:12:33,410 --> 00:12:30,959 Commission them for have you heard of 287 00:12:36,290 --> 00:12:33,420 this happening I was he talking about 288 00:12:38,929 --> 00:12:36,300 James Beard and maybe possibly like ni I 289 00:12:40,610 --> 00:12:38,939 did I didn't catch the name but I mean 290 00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:40,620 was a market that was a market we 291 00:12:44,889 --> 00:12:42,480 champion to maybe a decade or so ago as 292 00:12:47,210 --> 00:12:44,899 furniture maker from the Midwest and 293 00:12:49,220 --> 00:12:47,220 similar to Paul Evans a lot of welded 294 00:12:50,780 --> 00:12:49,230 metal honey were splitting pieces for 295 00:12:54,290 --> 00:12:50,790 multiples of what he was not able to 296 00:12:56,869 --> 00:12:54,300 sell them for in Missouri it's really 297 00:12:59,650 --> 00:12:56,879 gone that's his pricing structures has 298 00:13:02,449 --> 00:12:59,660 changed to adapt to the new market oh 299 00:13:04,910 --> 00:13:02,459 yeah I could see that adjustment yeah 300 00:13:10,879 --> 00:13:04,920 and certainly the high level of lawn 301 00:13:16,249 --> 00:13:10,889 furniture you know the French club I 302 00:13:19,220 --> 00:13:16,259 want just recently passed but the 303 00:13:21,319 --> 00:13:19,230 furniture you know we'd sell out very 304 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:21,329 quickly and then if it can come up at 305 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:23,490 auction would sell for multiple so a lot 306 00:13:27,499 --> 00:13:25,170 of it has to do with supply and demand 307 00:13:29,929 --> 00:13:27,509 sure yeah but in general the secondary 308 00:13:33,460 --> 00:13:29,939 market is below the primary market for 309 00:13:35,809 --> 00:13:33,470 most contemporary craft by quite a bit 310 00:13:37,489 --> 00:13:35,819 yeah yeah we're just seeing 311 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:37,499 I mean Mira Nakashima would be an 312 00:13:41,569 --> 00:13:38,910 interesting case in point again to stay 313 00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:41,579 with Nakashima and that's these pieces 314 00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:42,600 are made for miles 315 00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,360 when Richard and I are sitting now her 316 00:13:49,730 --> 00:13:47,600 we see her secondary market evolving 317 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:49,740 initially pieces were selling for a 318 00:13:53,629 --> 00:13:51,810 third of what they sold for originally 319 00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:53,639 and now especially if they were 320 00:13:57,410 --> 00:13:55,680 purchased more than a decade ago 321 00:14:00,740 --> 00:13:57,420 they're bringing two thirds and 322 00:14:02,449 --> 00:14:00,750 sometimes full original sale price so 323 00:14:05,090 --> 00:14:02,459 the definitely is a move forward in that 324 00:14:08,809 --> 00:14:05,100 regard would you say this a lot like an 325 00:14:10,990 --> 00:14:08,819 artwork that goes to auction and all of 326 00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:11,000 a sudden you know the sets a high 327 00:14:18,410 --> 00:14:14,310 auction record and then on the coattails 328 00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:18,420 of that things seem to hold you know an 329 00:14:22,309 --> 00:14:20,880 ear that or they seem to rise for that 330 00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:22,319 particular artist is that is that 331 00:14:29,180 --> 00:14:24,720 similar and when it comes to pieces that 332 00:14:32,050 --> 00:14:29,190 you handle for a contemporary yeah I 333 00:14:36,379 --> 00:14:32,060 mean I think you can get in one great 334 00:14:38,180 --> 00:14:36,389 result can help a market but not it 335 00:14:42,379 --> 00:14:38,190 doesn't always permanently move the 336 00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:42,389 market it can reset the frame yes you 337 00:14:49,610 --> 00:14:46,649 know or you you relative pricing a 338 00:14:51,559 --> 00:14:49,620 little bit differently it's always nice 339 00:14:55,249 --> 00:14:51,569 when that happens a bit more organically 340 00:14:56,689 --> 00:14:55,259 and when prices rise over time like with 341 00:15:00,499 --> 00:14:56,699 David was saying when Mira Nakashima 342 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:00,509 we've seen oh gee we just had a really 343 00:15:03,650 --> 00:15:02,130 nice group and it did a little bit 344 00:15:05,420 --> 00:15:03,660 better than they did some of the 345 00:15:07,759 --> 00:15:05,430 material before and you see that that's 346 00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:07,769 sort of natural evolution I think it's 347 00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:10,110 always healthier for a market than a big 348 00:15:15,470 --> 00:15:12,630 spike yes sometimes maintained but 349 00:15:18,079 --> 00:15:15,480 sometimes they can also thing is crash 350 00:15:20,059 --> 00:15:18,089 that's my poker teacher said to me after 351 00:15:22,730 --> 00:15:20,069 I had a good run of cards he said one 352 00:15:24,860 --> 00:15:22,740 Robin does not a spring make I gotta 353 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:24,870 tell you the day said that to me I lost 354 00:15:30,530 --> 00:15:26,490 my entire bankroll with about a month 355 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:30,540 hello yes there are spikes but yeah as 356 00:15:35,929 --> 00:15:32,730 we said prefer to see a more consistent 357 00:15:38,749 --> 00:15:35,939 in steady and even growth Wow one of the 358 00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:38,759 podcasts I have done and the last part 359 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:42,720 of the podcast a while back was on 360 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:44,490 Bellamy Eagles I don't even know if 361 00:15:48,379 --> 00:15:46,170 either one of you familiar with Bellamy 362 00:15:51,860 --> 00:15:48,389 carved Eagles they're they they're very 363 00:15:54,199 --> 00:15:51,870 popular in the and the East Coast and it 364 00:15:56,510 --> 00:15:54,209 was a Carver that would generally sell 365 00:15:58,940 --> 00:15:56,520 for well when I was a kid it was five 366 00:16:00,440 --> 00:15:58,950 bucks and I was a big deal and then you 367 00:16:02,420 --> 00:16:00,450 know they're right now they're in the 368 00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:02,430 five to ten thousand dollar range but 369 00:16:06,410 --> 00:16:04,560 there was a spike I'm going to talk 370 00:16:08,330 --> 00:16:06,420 about a spike northeast auctions Ron 371 00:16:10,220 --> 00:16:08,340 Bordeaux had won that one for six 372 00:16:13,220 --> 00:16:10,230 hundred and sixty thousand with the 373 00:16:16,580 --> 00:16:13,230 buyers dream and then so after that they 374 00:16:19,610 --> 00:16:16,590 were selling for six figures for for I 375 00:16:22,340 --> 00:16:19,620 think six months and then they dropped 376 00:16:23,660 --> 00:16:22,350 all the way back down to where they they 377 00:16:26,450 --> 00:16:23,670 were I mean it would have been wonderful 378 00:16:28,820 --> 00:16:26,460 to cash in but you'd see you know what 379 00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:28,830 happens in that particular case was all 380 00:16:33,140 --> 00:16:30,360 of a sudden everyone had a Bellamy Eagle 381 00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:33,150 putting in an auction and flooded the 382 00:16:36,350 --> 00:16:35,040 market they came out of the woodwork so 383 00:16:38,390 --> 00:16:36,360 yeah I think the important thing to 384 00:16:42,590 --> 00:16:38,400 remember it really is supply and demand 385 00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:42,600 yes and many of these markets are driven 386 00:16:47,270 --> 00:16:44,640 ultimately by a small number of people 387 00:16:50,390 --> 00:16:47,280 at the top and when they're active in 388 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:50,400 buying you know the market can be very 389 00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:52,650 strong if too many examples once they 390 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:55,110 have very few people going to buy 391 00:17:00,320 --> 00:16:57,450 multiples at the same once they have 392 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:00,330 Frank and if they keeps coming then just 393 00:17:05,090 --> 00:17:02,610 in this law of economics the price will 394 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:05,100 drop I mean David seen this and many you 395 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:07,050 know ceramics markets with the Nats 396 00:17:10,910 --> 00:17:09,089 litter is mostly seen in furniture 397 00:17:12,980 --> 00:17:10,920 because as a friend of mine once said 398 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:12,990 you can talking about arts and crafts 399 00:17:17,090 --> 00:17:14,610 market you can buy a Gustav Stickley 400 00:17:19,610 --> 00:17:17,100 bookcase or even buy 40 pieces of 401 00:17:21,170 --> 00:17:19,620 pottery to put in it you have that 402 00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:21,180 bookcase and once you have that dining 403 00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:22,860 table and that Morris here you're pretty 404 00:17:26,660 --> 00:17:25,470 much done with that for yeah but if 405 00:17:29,150 --> 00:17:26,670 you're a small collect if you're buying 406 00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:29,160 Venetian glass or Americans in Georgia 407 00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:31,320 or American ceramics there's always room 408 00:17:35,390 --> 00:17:33,480 for another pot or a piece of glass yeah 409 00:17:37,820 --> 00:17:35,400 and so which I think a lot of people 410 00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:37,830 don't consider is that if you want to 411 00:17:42,020 --> 00:17:39,360 get rid of that Gustav Stickley will 412 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:42,030 case or that that Paul Evans dining 413 00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:43,890 table what's the pain in the neck I mean 414 00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:45,600 you've got to first of all find the one 415 00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:47,760 you want more then you have to find out 416 00:17:51,620 --> 00:17:49,620 how to sell the one you've got and find 417 00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:51,630 people to come and take it and carry and 418 00:17:54,890 --> 00:17:53,280 then bring the new one in and it's a lot 419 00:17:57,140 --> 00:17:54,900 of work you're going to change a piece 420 00:17:58,640 --> 00:17:57,150 of pottery or a piece of glasses on that 421 00:18:00,440 --> 00:17:58,650 dining table or in that bookcase you 422 00:18:02,300 --> 00:18:00,450 pick it up you put in a box and you send 423 00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:02,310 it to someone yeah it's very easy to 424 00:18:05,540 --> 00:18:04,230 change these things around so I think 425 00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:05,550 the point less in the way of 426 00:18:09,470 --> 00:18:06,840 fluctuations in 427 00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:09,480 smalls than we do in furniture yeah yeah 428 00:18:14,180 --> 00:18:10,799 very good point 429 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:14,190 I love dealing with smalls when I'm when 430 00:18:19,129 --> 00:18:17,129 I'm cataloging and bringing things into 431 00:18:21,139 --> 00:18:19,139 auction it just seems like it's so much 432 00:18:22,820 --> 00:18:21,149 better luck than the hit or miss of 433 00:18:24,289 --> 00:18:22,830 furnitures hence you just brought up 434 00:18:26,029 --> 00:18:24,299 arts and crafts 435 00:18:27,950 --> 00:18:26,039 what is that market like I haven't 436 00:18:30,169 --> 00:18:27,960 really been following what is a Gustav 437 00:18:32,629 --> 00:18:30,179 Stickley pieces are they hanging in 438 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:32,639 there in the market or is it is it soft 439 00:18:36,619 --> 00:18:35,250 these days well it's it's a difficult 440 00:18:38,149 --> 00:18:36,629 stuff too because it's very close to my 441 00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:38,159 heart I mean this is this friend I was 442 00:18:41,930 --> 00:18:39,840 making rum it's Revolutionary it was 443 00:18:43,580 --> 00:18:41,940 made for philosophical and spiritual 444 00:18:45,710 --> 00:18:43,590 purpose it's not just something to sit 445 00:18:47,749 --> 00:18:45,720 in it was meant to transform society 446 00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:47,759 from the inside of the home I can wax 447 00:18:51,499 --> 00:18:49,440 about this for a long time it's very 448 00:18:53,509 --> 00:18:51,509 very powerful and this furniture that 449 00:18:56,450 --> 00:18:53,519 makes a statement and was effective in 450 00:19:00,379 --> 00:18:56,460 what it's in what it shows to do for a 451 00:19:01,879 --> 00:19:00,389 while and then when the after Wittstock 452 00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:01,889 hippie started buying it that's what I 453 00:19:06,169 --> 00:19:04,320 got in the market in the early 70s and 454 00:19:07,789 --> 00:19:06,179 and it found its purpose all over again 455 00:19:10,129 --> 00:19:07,799 it was a very revolution oriented 456 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:10,139 society even furniture fit but the 457 00:19:13,820 --> 00:19:12,090 problem is that that demographic is aged 458 00:19:15,409 --> 00:19:13,830 and this is a group of people that are 459 00:19:17,539 --> 00:19:15,419 either not adding or they're downsizing 460 00:19:19,850 --> 00:19:17,549 and the kids haven't really discovered 461 00:19:21,499 --> 00:19:19,860 it yet our last tale had some very good 462 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:21,509 Roy Croft furniture which is pretty rare 463 00:19:26,029 --> 00:19:23,970 and also highly spiritualize material 464 00:19:28,999 --> 00:19:26,039 and I was on the phone with a new bidder 465 00:19:30,499 --> 00:19:29,009 he was 22 years old and I said why so 466 00:19:31,879 --> 00:19:30,509 we're gonna hold a parade for you if you 467 00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:31,889 come out here what happened Freight just 468 00:19:35,659 --> 00:19:33,240 to show people that somebody arranged is 469 00:19:38,659 --> 00:19:35,669 buying this stuff it was very exciting 470 00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:38,669 yeah yeah yeah I would love I love the 471 00:19:45,259 --> 00:19:40,950 arts and crafts that whole that whole 472 00:19:46,129 --> 00:19:45,269 era of such beautiful pieces and you 473 00:19:49,519 --> 00:19:46,139 know I never thought about it 474 00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:49,529 spiritually but yeah a lot of it I could 475 00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:52,500 see why you're going that with that and 476 00:19:56,810 --> 00:19:54,960 I was just in a home recently where they 477 00:19:59,180 --> 00:19:56,820 had a table they didn't know about and 478 00:20:03,440 --> 00:19:59,190 then they also had on the third floor 479 00:20:05,330 --> 00:20:03,450 they had hanging lamps and you just 480 00:20:08,269 --> 00:20:05,340 don't see that it doesn't seem like that 481 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:08,279 comes up as often you know in a place 482 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:09,570 where they don't know what they have 483 00:20:17,090 --> 00:20:11,490 seems like everyone seems to know what 484 00:20:19,070 --> 00:20:17,100 they have and but as far as you know 485 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:19,080 talking to people that are you just 486 00:20:22,909 --> 00:20:20,970 talked about the 22 year old and one of 487 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:22,919 the reasons I do this podcast I try to 488 00:20:27,419 --> 00:20:24,370 get you know peep 489 00:20:30,419 --> 00:20:27,429 interested in this market you know I I 490 00:20:33,269 --> 00:20:30,429 got an email from an appraiser 20 years 491 00:20:35,549 --> 00:20:33,279 ago he said the baby-boomer effect is 492 00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:35,559 going to leave us all surrounded by 493 00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:39,760 beautiful things worth nothing and well 494 00:20:44,370 --> 00:20:41,950 what's that who said that it was an 495 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:44,380 appraiser he sit from connected to him 496 00:20:47,490 --> 00:20:45,850 on LinkedIn and he sent it to me and 497 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:47,500 I've been looking for it I can't I can't 498 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:50,650 find it but that was that was I'll I 499 00:20:55,980 --> 00:20:54,490 want to say that was in 2004 or 500 00:20:57,779 --> 00:20:55,990 something like that when he wrote me 501 00:21:01,169 --> 00:20:57,789 that and I didn't believe it I kind of 502 00:21:05,130 --> 00:21:01,179 like you know rebut it against it but I 503 00:21:08,159 --> 00:21:05,140 think it makes a lotta sense yeah 504 00:21:10,850 --> 00:21:08,169 and and all this material will be coming 505 00:21:14,519 --> 00:21:10,860 you just mentioned the baby boomers the 506 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:14,529 you know the older market what do you 507 00:21:18,659 --> 00:21:16,510 think is gonna happen do you think that 508 00:21:21,269 --> 00:21:18,669 people young people may start 509 00:21:24,750 --> 00:21:21,279 appreciating this like this bitter you 510 00:21:29,820 --> 00:21:24,760 were talking about and if not are we in 511 00:21:31,919 --> 00:21:29,830 trouble I mean I have a more optimistic 512 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:31,929 view of it I think that that tastes 513 00:21:36,899 --> 00:21:34,090 change across generations and there will 514 00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:36,909 be things that that were everybody 515 00:21:42,750 --> 00:21:39,760 wanted a war vote like you know bakelite 516 00:21:44,269 --> 00:21:42,760 radios and bakelite jewelry that just go 517 00:21:47,639 --> 00:21:44,279 by the wayside salt and peppers 518 00:21:49,380 --> 00:21:47,649 collector easy all that stuff just you 519 00:21:52,529 --> 00:21:49,390 know it's on eBay it just kind of went 520 00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:52,539 down down down a great material of any 521 00:21:57,930 --> 00:21:55,600 era translates and I think that it said 522 00:21:59,250 --> 00:21:57,940 that there'll be there'll be things that 523 00:22:01,620 --> 00:21:59,260 are being discovered by future 524 00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:01,630 generations you know David's handled the 525 00:22:09,389 --> 00:22:05,110 work of George or for decades the Potter 526 00:22:10,919 --> 00:22:09,399 the pottery yeah and recently and he can 527 00:22:14,130 --> 00:22:10,929 he should speak more about this pathetic 528 00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:14,140 but by outside view the market went up 529 00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:16,510 the market went down now a whole new 530 00:22:21,659 --> 00:22:18,640 generation of buyers is coming in and 531 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:21,669 the markets going back up and to me that 532 00:22:28,289 --> 00:22:24,850 you know 19th century in many cases but 533 00:22:31,169 --> 00:22:28,299 search our early 20th century work looks 534 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:31,179 really radical and fresh at the 20th is 535 00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,090 21st century era and I think that new 536 00:22:39,850 --> 00:22:36,080 people are discovering so to meet 537 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:39,860 gonna make a leap I think also if you 538 00:22:43,060 --> 00:22:41,510 wanted to buy a nice Gustav Stickley a 539 00:22:45,210 --> 00:22:43,070 really good Gustav Stickley two-door 540 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:45,220 bookcase at the height of the market st. 541 00:22:50,980 --> 00:22:49,370 2007 that bookcase a good basic one was 542 00:22:53,529 --> 00:22:50,990 going to be seven to ten thousand 543 00:22:55,389 --> 00:22:53,539 dollars that price a lot of people out 544 00:22:57,970 --> 00:22:55,399 of the market know that bookcase might 545 00:23:00,130 --> 00:22:57,980 be half that maybe a little less than 546 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:00,140 half that is these prices come down 547 00:23:05,139 --> 00:23:02,690 it's qualitative furniture if people 548 00:23:08,620 --> 00:23:05,149 understand how intelligent it is what it 549 00:23:11,379 --> 00:23:08,630 says about a society from what you from 550 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:11,389 from which its sprung I mean you got to 551 00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:13,010 put your books in something I keep 552 00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:14,809 quoting a friend of mine from the arts 553 00:23:18,220 --> 00:23:16,880 and crafts days Harvey Kaplan his 554 00:23:21,159 --> 00:23:18,230 grandmother used to say that there's a 555 00:23:22,990 --> 00:23:21,169 took us for every chair and and you kind 556 00:23:24,669 --> 00:23:23,000 of sit in something and that's you're 557 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:24,679 gonna go out to Mikey and buy a 558 00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:26,570 brand-new piece of garbage and put it 559 00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:27,710 together yourself where you want to buy 560 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:29,840 a really nice chair and the chair that 561 00:23:33,460 --> 00:23:31,370 was five thousand dollars might be 562 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:33,470 twelve hundred dollars now at that point 563 00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:35,690 I think at some level people recognize 564 00:23:40,690 --> 00:23:38,809 the quality and value quotient is hard 565 00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:40,700 to ignore and I think that the younger 566 00:23:45,820 --> 00:23:43,370 generation is also going to have to 567 00:23:50,430 --> 00:23:45,830 grapple much more with you know climate 568 00:23:52,899 --> 00:23:50,440 change and the idea of reusing redoubt 569 00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:52,909 adapting and reusing things from the 570 00:23:59,649 --> 00:23:54,710 past is going to make more and more 571 00:24:01,960 --> 00:23:59,659 sense I hope so because look at the new 572 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:01,970 furniture first of all there's such an 573 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:04,970 environmental impact from it and and not 574 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:08,690 only that you know why would a moving 575 00:24:13,629 --> 00:24:11,330 company not move IKEA furniture because 576 00:24:16,389 --> 00:24:13,639 it it doesn't stay together it's 577 00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:16,399 disposable and we're in a disposable 578 00:24:24,610 --> 00:24:20,510 society but you know I'm hoping to see 579 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:24,620 that the trend will go back to you know 580 00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:28,010 the green part of people interested in 581 00:24:34,750 --> 00:24:33,289 furniture I have seen a I it seems to me 582 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:34,760 that I have seen a little bit of a rise 583 00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:37,730 of that in the last year or two that 584 00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:39,980 know where younger people are getting 585 00:24:44,769 --> 00:24:42,080 involved I see some good interest in 586 00:24:46,779 --> 00:24:44,779 American classic American fifties you 587 00:24:49,410 --> 00:24:46,789 know I think L Charles Eames my entire 588 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:49,420 career high watermark for 589 00:24:55,740 --> 00:24:53,410 price-wise of probably 2002 three and 590 00:24:58,260 --> 00:24:55,750 then it went down I've continued to sell 591 00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:58,270 it you know part of our investment in in 592 00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:00,480 in our websites and the digitisation 593 00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:04,150 allows us to reach this younger audience 594 00:25:09,810 --> 00:25:07,390 and you know I've seen a lot of young 595 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:09,820 people now one in an original Eames 596 00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:12,490 chair one in that patina wanting to feel 597 00:25:17,070 --> 00:25:15,910 the real thing and I think a lot you 598 00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:17,080 know I think you can spend a lot of time 599 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:19,360 saying Millennials are going to collect 600 00:25:24,510 --> 00:25:21,610 I think the natural demographic for 601 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:24,520 people is here to collect our older when 602 00:25:28,830 --> 00:25:26,650 they're in their 40s and 50s and they 603 00:25:33,210 --> 00:25:28,840 start to have a morphs Norman and sense 604 00:25:35,220 --> 00:25:33,220 I think that just the the appeal of you 605 00:25:37,170 --> 00:25:35,230 see it in the art market you know the 606 00:25:39,570 --> 00:25:37,180 the the the desire to live with 607 00:25:42,270 --> 00:25:39,580 beautiful things is deeply human and I'm 608 00:25:43,980 --> 00:25:42,280 not I'm not so worried about that you 609 00:25:47,070 --> 00:25:43,990 know what those beautiful things are 610 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:47,080 might change and we will change with it 611 00:25:57,300 --> 00:25:53,490 or we out of work we're changing yeah 612 00:26:00,990 --> 00:25:57,310 one of the things I you know I'll give 613 00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:01,000 my opinion and like to hear yours is you 614 00:26:04,050 --> 00:26:02,590 know I've met a lot of you know 615 00:26:06,260 --> 00:26:04,060 collectors over the years and had 616 00:26:08,850 --> 00:26:06,270 conversations and one of the things they 617 00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:08,860 enjoyed the most was the hunt 618 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:12,400 you know boots on the ground hunt and 619 00:26:17,490 --> 00:26:15,610 now we have the internet and you know 620 00:26:20,340 --> 00:26:17,500 eBay has certainly changed a lot of 621 00:26:22,860 --> 00:26:20,350 things you know I wouldn't want to be in 622 00:26:25,470 --> 00:26:22,870 the Hummel market and you know priority 623 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:25,480 eBay or Roosevelt pottery or something 624 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:25,930 like that 625 00:26:32,910 --> 00:26:29,170 but do you think that losing the chase 626 00:26:35,550 --> 00:26:32,920 the physical chase has affected value 627 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:35,560 and the other the other side of that 628 00:26:38,700 --> 00:26:37,330 coin is a lot of people see something 629 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:38,710 now because of the internet they would 630 00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:40,210 have never seen it before I mean what 631 00:26:41,790 --> 00:26:41,470 are your thoughts on that either one of 632 00:26:43,860 --> 00:26:41,800 you 633 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:43,870 I think the chase is still the same I 634 00:26:49,980 --> 00:26:46,810 mean I think you we can pine for the 635 00:26:52,050 --> 00:26:49,990 past and think about you know you know I 636 00:26:53,670 --> 00:26:52,060 used to pick in Brimfield and those are 637 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:53,680 early mornings watching the Sun come up 638 00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:54,250 and they 639 00:26:58,020 --> 00:26:56,320 eternal optimism of finding a great 640 00:26:59,710 --> 00:26:58,030 piece set out in front of you and and 641 00:27:01,140 --> 00:26:59,720 more often than not 642 00:27:03,970 --> 00:27:01,150 happening before at the end of the day 643 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:03,980 you know that was an amazing time but 644 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:07,850 you know it's fun I can geek out looking 645 00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:10,610 in you know auctions in Germany now and 646 00:27:14,590 --> 00:27:12,799 looking at weird stuff you can point I 647 00:27:17,289 --> 00:27:14,600 look at look at Japanese art from the 648 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:17,299 70s and you can buy in Japan that is 649 00:27:22,450 --> 00:27:20,330 really not very expensive you know so 650 00:27:24,850 --> 00:27:22,460 the whole world is available to you and 651 00:27:26,980 --> 00:27:24,860 if you you know if you if you get into 652 00:27:29,470 --> 00:27:26,990 collecting you know then you can you can 653 00:27:32,140 --> 00:27:29,480 actually you kinda have to raise the bar 654 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:32,150 you just if you want Hummels yeah see 655 00:27:36,580 --> 00:27:34,730 uh-huh but you know I think it gets you 656 00:27:39,850 --> 00:27:36,590 to focus if you're into like obscure 657 00:27:41,649 --> 00:27:39,860 weird stuff you can find it now the 658 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:41,659 chase I went to Brimfield 659 00:27:46,510 --> 00:27:44,210 this wasn't say 78 I spent three days of 660 00:27:49,779 --> 00:27:46,520 Renfield and I'm not exaggerating I 661 00:27:51,220 --> 00:27:49,789 filled a Chevy cargo van with about a 662 00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:51,230 hundred and eighty five pieces of 663 00:27:55,390 --> 00:27:53,390 American art pottery in three days I 664 00:27:58,690 --> 00:27:55,400 went back three years later I bought 665 00:28:01,840 --> 00:27:58,700 four pieces we're talking we're talking 666 00:28:03,820 --> 00:28:01,850 by eighty that that should had sailed so 667 00:28:06,730 --> 00:28:03,830 the chase but the chase didn't end then 668 00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:06,740 it just changed and and as Richard said 669 00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,960 now we could shop at an auction in 670 00:28:12,340 --> 00:28:10,880 Germany if he wants but what I think is 671 00:28:14,260 --> 00:28:12,350 also the case and I'll tie Antiques 672 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:14,270 Roadshow into this when we first started 673 00:28:17,770 --> 00:28:16,010 to an Antiques Roadshow in the late 90s 674 00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:17,780 and we're about to start a 25th year 675 00:28:25,210 --> 00:28:21,289 doing Roadshow they would those send us 676 00:28:27,399 --> 00:28:25,220 now an appraisal we did 20 22 years ago 677 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:27,409 to edit it because it's gonna reuse it 678 00:28:30,970 --> 00:28:29,210 right and it comes it's that long 679 00:28:33,730 --> 00:28:30,980 there's two paragraphs that's what the 680 00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:33,740 appraisal was because people didn't know 681 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:35,360 what they had so that it could be Mark 682 00:28:40,180 --> 00:28:36,890 Ruby pottery they wouldn't know that if 683 00:28:42,340 --> 00:28:40,190 he screw B well starting in 2003-2004 684 00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:42,350 the people come in and they knew oh this 685 00:28:46,060 --> 00:28:44,480 is a piece of pottery is made in 1905 686 00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:46,070 that's where there is the signature and 687 00:28:48,850 --> 00:28:47,360 the last one so for that all this 688 00:28:50,620 --> 00:28:48,860 information well you should see the 689 00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:50,630 appraisal lengths now from the early 690 00:28:55,210 --> 00:28:53,840 two-thousands on this law because we 691 00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:55,220 couldn't just say oh that's a piece of 692 00:28:59,140 --> 00:28:56,510 groovy pottery made in Boston 693 00:29:00,669 --> 00:28:59,150 Massachusetts it's worth $2,000 now we 694 00:29:02,620 --> 00:29:00,679 had to tell him what groovy pottery was 695 00:29:03,399 --> 00:29:02,630 why was groovy pottery in Boston 696 00:29:04,659 --> 00:29:03,409 Massachusetts 697 00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:04,669 what happened there that caused us 698 00:29:08,860 --> 00:29:07,039 pottery to be created and how does this 699 00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:08,870 piece relate to the other pottery made 700 00:29:12,460 --> 00:29:10,880 in Boston at that time now you're really 701 00:29:14,110 --> 00:29:12,470 telling the story and what 702 00:29:15,940 --> 00:29:14,120 is that people are becoming more 703 00:29:18,180 --> 00:29:15,950 intelligent we're really the ones who 704 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:18,190 are interested are drilling down and 705 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:20,090 understanding the nuances of the 706 00:29:23,380 --> 00:29:21,890 material as never before because it's 707 00:29:25,270 --> 00:29:23,390 informations on the internet it's out 708 00:29:26,830 --> 00:29:25,280 there yeah you could you want to see 709 00:29:28,330 --> 00:29:26,840 what greedy pottery looks like if you 710 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:28,340 were to spend about three hours you can 711 00:29:32,500 --> 00:29:30,890 probably look at about 2,000 pieces of 712 00:29:35,290 --> 00:29:32,510 groovy pottery by searching auction 713 00:29:36,910 --> 00:29:35,300 websites seeing what they look like what 714 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:36,920 they were estimated for and how much 715 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:38,810 they sold for that information wasn't it 716 00:29:42,730 --> 00:29:41,210 that was a generation ago so that's a 717 00:29:45,790 --> 00:29:42,740 long answer to your question but I think 718 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:45,800 as Whichard says the hunt has changed 719 00:29:48,010 --> 00:29:47,210 and it has favored that people have 720 00:29:50,260 --> 00:29:48,020 changed with it 721 00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:50,270 Wow wow that's really that's really 722 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:53,600 interesting and as far as you know the 723 00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:56,570 the new collector someone that is just 724 00:30:01,150 --> 00:29:58,250 getting started 725 00:30:04,150 --> 00:30:01,160 what advice would be the one of you give 726 00:30:06,340 --> 00:30:04,160 them to get started well to David's 727 00:30:08,170 --> 00:30:06,350 point I think what's great is all the 728 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:08,180 information out there actually gives 729 00:30:12,430 --> 00:30:10,850 more confidence to new collectors so I 730 00:30:14,500 --> 00:30:12,440 think if you can if you want to start 731 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:14,510 collecting groovy pottery it's pretty 732 00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:16,730 easy to understand whether you're buying 733 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:20,480 an aps VPS or CPS and approximately what 734 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:23,090 you should be paying and that you know 735 00:30:29,050 --> 00:30:25,610 transparency and information actually 736 00:30:31,150 --> 00:30:29,060 build markets so in that sense it's a 737 00:30:33,130 --> 00:30:31,160 it's a real positive it makes it hard 738 00:30:35,650 --> 00:30:33,140 for Pickers because people do know that 739 00:30:36,970 --> 00:30:35,660 information is out there yeah but you 740 00:30:39,610 --> 00:30:36,980 know auction houses have played a huge 741 00:30:43,780 --> 00:30:39,620 role in educating the market in building 742 00:30:46,060 --> 00:30:43,790 the market as far as being harder for 743 00:30:47,710 --> 00:30:46,070 Pickers I mean so I I bought one hundred 744 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:47,720 and eighty pieces of pottery Brimfield 745 00:30:52,270 --> 00:30:49,610 in three days right and I made X dollars 746 00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:52,280 I can buy one piece of pottery now I 747 00:30:55,630 --> 00:30:53,600 will make the same amount of money those 748 00:30:57,940 --> 00:30:55,640 180 would have brought me a profit 749 00:30:59,440 --> 00:30:57,950 because the information is that much 750 00:31:02,680 --> 00:30:59,450 more nuanced in the markets that much 751 00:31:05,950 --> 00:31:02,690 more evolved so I think that the I think 752 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:05,960 it doesn't favor the lazy if you only do 753 00:31:09,460 --> 00:31:07,130 the work and if you're really good at 754 00:31:12,820 --> 00:31:09,470 this this information explosion that we 755 00:31:15,220 --> 00:31:12,830 see yes that's the qualitative dealers 756 00:31:16,660 --> 00:31:15,230 from qualitative auction houses yeah you 757 00:31:18,790 --> 00:31:16,670 know the only double edged sword er that 758 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:18,800 is what when someone thinks they have 759 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:20,690 something in front of them that is 760 00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:23,690 similar you know or reproduction you 761 00:31:27,370 --> 00:31:25,520 know I mean that there 762 00:31:30,660 --> 00:31:27,380 you know they have to learn the heart 763 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:30,670 the school of hard knocks that way oh 764 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:33,650 yeah we've all done those things and 765 00:31:38,260 --> 00:31:36,770 letters that are all caps this is the 766 00:31:39,610 --> 00:31:38,270 best piece of issue we'll ever see in 767 00:31:41,970 --> 00:31:39,620 capital letters that's what I know 768 00:31:45,130 --> 00:31:41,980 immediately that's going to be difficult 769 00:31:46,150 --> 00:31:45,140 yeah that's right that's right all right 770 00:31:48,940 --> 00:31:46,160 so why don't you give out your 771 00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:48,950 information how people can get know well 772 00:31:55,390 --> 00:31:51,620 one last question you're still running 773 00:31:57,910 --> 00:31:55,400 running independent auctions separately 774 00:32:00,940 --> 00:31:57,920 or how does that work so we're one we 775 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:00,950 are one company with a shared back-end 776 00:32:06,820 --> 00:32:03,770 and we're operating two separate brands 777 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:06,830 with selective covariance that isn't 778 00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:10,250 confusing enough so you know the history 779 00:32:14,530 --> 00:32:13,310 that each of us have built up and it's a 780 00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:14,540 quirky business there are people that 781 00:32:19,030 --> 00:32:16,910 love doing business with Rago they want 782 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:19,040 to go to Lambertville this is you know 783 00:32:22,810 --> 00:32:21,170 it feel really proud of this place and 784 00:32:24,670 --> 00:32:22,820 they personally love David because he's 785 00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:24,680 been doing it so long yeah you know 786 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:26,480 never Wright has a different you know 787 00:32:31,060 --> 00:32:28,970 sort of Association so we're able to 788 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:31,070 draw the best of both of our individual 789 00:32:36,970 --> 00:32:33,530 friends and then tomorrow we're doing in 790 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:36,980 one of our an auction together which is 791 00:32:43,060 --> 00:32:39,650 a co-branded sale which I think really 792 00:32:46,540 --> 00:32:43,070 shows how we can collaborate in a public 793 00:32:49,270 --> 00:32:46,550 way or publicly merged we talk you don't 794 00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:49,280 make a right all the time but you know 795 00:32:55,270 --> 00:32:51,500 so two separate channels selective 796 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:55,280 co-branding but you can reach us you 797 00:33:01,170 --> 00:32:57,650 email either either either web site 798 00:33:04,450 --> 00:33:01,180 you're gonna it all goes to the back 799 00:33:06,820 --> 00:33:04,460 we'll find you right as we're speaking 800 00:33:08,020 --> 00:33:06,830 here your Reiko right structure and 801 00:33:10,930 --> 00:33:08,030 ornament 802 00:33:12,340 --> 00:33:10,940 a notice came across my screen and you 803 00:33:14,890 --> 00:33:12,350 know it's a great example because mark 804 00:33:18,540 --> 00:33:14,900 MacDonald is is the curator of that 805 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:18,550 auction a good friend of both of ours 806 00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:21,170 David knows him you know better than I 807 00:33:27,460 --> 00:33:22,910 do but I've admired mark for many 808 00:33:29,230 --> 00:33:27,470 decades we've both worked with mark but 809 00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:29,240 mark came to us to do this project 810 00:33:34,450 --> 00:33:32,510 because of the synergies of the merger 811 00:33:36,820 --> 00:33:34,460 you know he wanted the high production 812 00:33:37,870 --> 00:33:36,830 value he wanted to have the the 813 00:33:38,530 --> 00:33:37,880 jewelry's previewing here in 814 00:33:40,510 --> 00:33:38,540 Lambertville 815 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:40,520 one of these ghosts didn't want to be in 816 00:33:45,070 --> 00:33:43,490 the Midwest well and it's it's it's 817 00:33:48,010 --> 00:33:45,080 really worked so our teams have worked 818 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:48,020 together Jay David has a jewelry team we 819 00:33:52,150 --> 00:33:49,730 don't have a jewelry T we have a design 820 00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:52,160 team so we it was a perfect 821 00:33:55,770 --> 00:33:54,260 collaboration and a really high style 822 00:33:57,010 --> 00:33:55,780 auction that's gotten a lot of attention 823 00:33:59,920 --> 00:33:57,020 Wow 824 00:34:03,100 --> 00:33:59,930 David I heard I've read a quote you were 825 00:34:06,370 --> 00:34:03,110 quoting from someone that said something 826 00:34:09,610 --> 00:34:06,380 about competitors do you remember that 827 00:34:11,380 --> 00:34:09,620 quote instead of competing cooperate oh 828 00:34:12,930 --> 00:34:11,390 that's Elbert Hubbard Elbert Hubbard 829 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:12,940 says right yeah 830 00:34:18,430 --> 00:34:15,410 ideally in businesses cooperation not 831 00:34:21,970 --> 00:34:18,440 competition right X is more profitable 832 00:34:23,470 --> 00:34:21,980 and a lot more fun yeah not something 833 00:34:24,970 --> 00:34:23,480 many people ascribe to but it's 834 00:34:26,650 --> 00:34:24,980 something I believed in for a long long 835 00:34:28,270 --> 00:34:26,660 time and that was certainly was one of 836 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:28,280 the driving factors behind my winning to 837 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:29,690 merge excellent 838 00:34:33,340 --> 00:34:31,490 all right you two thank you so much and 839 00:34:34,630 --> 00:34:33,350 I wish you the best of luck thank you 840 00:34:37,780 --> 00:34:34,640 this is great to talk to you thanks